Ketty Trivedi (Prudential Insurance Group) - Deeper Look in the Mirror

Vin: Welcome to The Marketing Stir Podcast by Stirista, probably the most entertaining marketing podcast you're going to put in your ear. I'm Vin, the associate producer here at Stirista. The goal of this podcast is to chat with industry leaders and get their take on the current challenges of the market, and we'll have a little fun along the way. Today, Vincent and Ajay chat with Ketty Trivedi, CMO at Prudential Group Insurance. She talks about how marketing automation helps with keeping customer experiences consisted and connected. Ajay steers clear of COVID, and Vincent tries to keep him from falling asleep. Give it a listen.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Stirista's The Marketing Stir. I, of course, am your host, Vincent Pietrafesa, the vice president of B2B Products and Partnerships. It is so great to be back. This is the first episode we're recording in the new year, but we want to keep you posted on what is actually happening. It is our first episode, and I'm very excited for a variety of reasons. But first, let me pause. Let's talk about Stirista. In case you forgot about us, now it's 2022. Stirista, we are a marketing technology company. We own our own business- to- business data, business- to- consumer data. We work with companies to utilize that data, to target that data, get new customers, email marketing. We own our own DSP AdStir so we could do display, OTT, connected TV. Email me if you'd like, vincent @ stirista. com. That is how confident I am in our service. I just gave you my email address. I won't give you my phone number. That's a whole other story. But the other thing I'm confident in and I'm so happy to see his face, hear his voice for the new year, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Ajay Gupta. What's going on, Ajay?

Ajay Gupta: Hey, Vincent. I'd gotten used to napping around this time for the last week, so this is new territory for me. But glad to be back though.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Got to keep up. It is, it's good to be here, Ajay. My co- host, ladies and gentlemen, my commander in chief, like I say, my CEO, it is good to be back. I'll try not to make you go to sleep, Ajay, cut into your nap time. It is so good. Happy New Year. Sir, Happy New Year.

Ajay Gupta: To you as well.

Vincent Pietrafesa: How was the holidays for you?

Ajay Gupta: It was good. I think people around me seem to be getting COVID but I have managed to not get COVID, so I would chalk that as a win.

Vincent Pietrafesa: The Teflon Don over there, as they say. You're like Teflon. That's great.

Ajay Gupta: Yep. It's been good. My parents are visiting. They hadn't been out of India in a while, so this has been good for us.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's awesome. It's great. Great to have the parents there. They get to see the grandkids. For me, I enjoyed the holidays, I did. I am a little under the weather. It is not COVID. I took six home COVID tests over 10 days and I got one PCR test. I'm a little under the weather now, but I did not want to miss this podcast because it's amazing guests that we have. So I just realized that you could also just get sick, remember that? You could get a common cold. People seem to forget about that, so I believe I have a common cold. I cannot have COVID. My nose can't take any more tests. I'll tell you that now, but it was crazy. It was a good time. This time of year, I took the tree down yesterday. That's always disappointing, more for me. My kids don't care. They're too young. They're like," All right, just now I have more space to run around." But it is good to be here. It's the start of a new year, Ajay.

Ajay Gupta: Well, I'm glad all your tests came back negative, but yeah, it is weird. Now, if you hear a sneeze, the first thing is,"Oh, I got to leave this restaurant. This person might give me COVID."

Vincent Pietrafesa: Oh yeah. People bug out. You sneeze, even my son at four and a half, he knows. He's like," Dad, that guy just sneezed. He has to get off the elevator." And he'll say that aloud. He'll say that in front of this guy. I'm like," No, he doesn't. He has a mask on, it's okay." Its crazy times.

Ajay Gupta: Yep.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Crazy times, indeed. But we're back, we are here. We already celebrated our 100th episode. You've already heard that. We are rocking and rolling here, ladies and gentlemen. It is our first episode that we're recording in the new year. Oh, and do we have an amazing one. I am so glad that we are talking to this next guest. She is from Prudential Group Insurance. Prudential, you've heard of Prudential. This is Prudential Group Insurance within that amazing organization, an amazing organization in itself. She is the chief marketing officer of Prudential Group Insurance. Ladies and gentlemen, a warm Marketing Stir welcome to Ketty Trivedi. What's going on, Ketty?

Ketty Trivedi: It's great to be here. Thank you so much and Happy New Year. How are you?

Vincent Pietrafesa: Happy New Year. I am great. It is so great to talk to you, great to meet you. Thank you for joining us on The Marketing Stir. Ketty, let's get right into it if we could, because Prudential, people know Prudential, right? If you don't, come on. Do you live under a rock? All of our listeners know Prudential, but talk to us about Prudential Group Insurance. I would love to learn about that division business unit. Talk about your role within Prudential Group Insurance. And also, talk to us about, I know I'm throwing 28 questions at you at once, but I'm so happy you're here. Talk to us about how you got into marketing as well, because those are the questions that our guests love to hear right off the bat. Take it away.

Ketty Trivedi: Okay, thank you. I know, I think those were six great questions so thank you for that. What I'll share with you is, and thanks for the analogy to the rock. That was a great one. But Prudential Group Insurance is a business unit of Prudential Financial. And the group insurance business basically produces and distributes a full range of just group life, disability, voluntary, and corporate, and trust on life insurance products, as well as provides administration services. Now, I know that these are insurance coverages that are so critical and so important to an individual's financial wellbeing. My goal, as you just mentioned, and as you introduced me as chief marketing officer at Group Insurance, my team and I were responsible for really product marketing, institutional marketing, and engaging all of the individuals across our clients, which are technically our employers, around really contributing and engaging in the ability to basically buy product coverages. Whether it's life insurance, disability, or supplemental health coverages, so that they're protecting their loved ones. So think about this if I put this in simple words, B2B and B2C marketing, as well as capabilities. Now, you asked me, how did I get started in marketing? This was an interesting one personally for me, because I never dreamed of being a market share or I didn't start my career in marketing. I actually started my career as an equity analyst and I stepped into the path of marketing through a stretch assignment. So over the first couple of, I would say five years, my focus was primarily research analysts, equities analysts across financial services, more around investment management and asset management. And at that time, I used to work very, very closely on the investment side. We were in the process of developing or initiating a CRM platform that would really enable us to understand consumer touchpoints, customer touchpoints. There was a stretch assignment where I ended up raising my hand. I got involved in building that with various individuals on that team, which also allowed me to use my analytic skills, which allowed me to analyze customer data, leverage the information. And ultimately, the work that involved was engaging with customers. That started getting my interests more on the marketing side. And as a role opened up, I stepped into that role and I moved into marketing. That's how I got started in marketing. I have been with Prudential Group Insurance for 14 years now, but overall, have been in financial services for 23 years so very exciting.

Ajay Gupta: And we're glad you joined the marketing channel because otherwise, you wouldn't be on our marketing podcast. So tell us a little bit more about what are some of the channels and strategies you're using for marketing right now?

Ketty Trivedi: Yeah, that's a great question, Ajay. I would say that marketing automation across the entire B2B and B2C journey is a key area of focus for us. I would also offer up that has actually been amplified in our marketing efforts, especially over the last 18 months because of just the marketing environment with what's happened to the workforce due to COVID and so many other reasons. So when I think about the basic approach or the strategy, I would say marketing automation infuses a lot of the channels and the strategies that we've deployed. Automation has also provided us this ability to create consistent one- on- one cropped channel journey that have delivered a consistent, connected customer experience. And I would say that if I was to maybe give you one example for one strategy, I'm going to tie that back to account- based marketing. To most of us as marketers, we're familiar with the B2B experience, with the B2B customer journey. But what's interesting about account- based marketing and the ability for us to basically leverage data, is that our ability to really target the right customers for the right accounts, as we call it on the insurance side, through priority account list. And making sure that we're being extremely laser focused in terms of how we're really orchestrating that consistent experience with the brand across, whether it's through communications, engagement, various other channels, whether it's social, email, personalization, chat, and so on, and so much more. But the intent around this is how do we keep the customer- facing teams aligned with the marketing- facing teams to make sure that from the first touch all the way through engagement, as well as through expansion, that we're really pulling all of that account data together so that it matters the most? And really bringing all of this together, using attribution, influence reporting to measure and to optimize the message is really key. I would say this is a really interesting strategy that we've leveraged on the B2B side. One of the interesting strategies that has actually resulted in some really interesting learnings, as well as great results for us.

Ajay Gupta: Ketty, is there specific automation systems or, I guess, marketing stack that you are a big fan of, and that you recommend and use yourself?

Ketty Trivedi: Well, we are actually, I would say, focused or rather investing in Adobe. That is definitely an investment style market stack that we're moving towards. But I'll also tell you that we've also looked at inaudible, as well as Eloqua, as well as ON24. So these are various marketing stacks that we've leveraged, as far as our B2B and B2C journey.

Vincent Pietrafesa: And thank you for sharing that. Our listeners love hearing about some stack out there, technology stack that they could," Oh, wow. Okay, I should look at into that," so thank you. Ketty, you talked about analyst to marketer, right? Do you feel that your analyst background helps you in marketing now?

Ketty Trivedi: Absolutely, it does. When I think about marketing or when all of us think about marketing, marketing requires fundamentally, analyzing and understanding through data and insights. And insights and data are tied to customer needs, whether it's products, whether it's market attributes. I think analyzing this information, as well as the ever changing market environment and the various factors are critical to develop any kind of marketing strategy, or positioning, or content strategy to meet our customer needs. So I feel that the first step that I take back to my work in as an analyst, is I tend to dig deep into really understanding what the challenge is, and then how do we try and solve that? So yes, it absolutely does.

Vincent Pietrafesa: And Ketty, people think about insurance, I think, in a different way now, given the last couple years, right? I think it's so much more important that you look at life insurance, you look at a lot of different factors, but financial wellness, I think, is something that people really had to take a deeper look in the mirror and say," Okay, well, how sound am I?" Do you have any financial tips about financial wellness, or tips about financial wellness that not a lot of people may know that you could share with us?

Ketty Trivedi: Vincent, it's interesting that over the last, I would say, maybe three to five years, the word financial wellness has been out there a lot. And there's been so much information in education, just on the importance of financial wellness. But when you look at that and when you understand that, what I take away is that there are three fundamental areas or tips, as you said, that I would offer up. One is when you think about financial wellness, you're thinking about financial wellbeing for yourself, for your loved ones. What's really important is budgeting, creating a budget so that you, as an individual, as well as your family, are aware of what you are spending, how you are spending, and why you are spending your money. So creating a budget, I would say, is the first critical factor. The second one is in the environment that we live in, handling your credit with serious care. This is so important. And I would say this is not just important for us as adults, but how do we start maybe teaching our kids about this too? Because we know that as they turn to be adults, this is something that, as we can teach them, this would be better. And then the third one is, which again is important, but I know it's probably the most toughest one is building on a fundamental approach or a value on how much do we want to save or how much can we save? It's very easy for folks to say," Well, we have to save," but how much can you save? And how much do you want to save? Because this state allows you to plan for any major purchases that you may want to have, or any indulgences that we need to lean into. Or even basically allows you to manage money for any emergencies. I would say these are three factors. Create a budget, handle your credit, and make sure that you're saving. So these are the three fundamental tips that I would offer up.

Ajay Gupta: What do you see as the future of insurance?

Ketty Trivedi: So this is an interesting one too, because as we think about insurance, the insurance industry has rapidly, rapidly shifted from a product- led to a service- led offering. I think I was just talking to Vincent that technology such as AI and big data used to be buzzwords a couple of years ago, but now they're integral for any insurance or insurance industry. When we think about the future of insurance, there are specific elements around digitization that are not really necessary, but these are the norm. So as we think about digital engagement, digital interaction, platform integration, our ability to really analyze data. And more so, how are we really meeting the customer where they want us to meet them? So personalization to the extent of making sure that we're really providing the customer a very seamless customer experience all the way from purchase to service, so that's really the key. And as we think about the future of insurance, our ability to really integrate technology, our ability to integrate understanding of the customer data is going to be really, really important and relevant.

Ajay Gupta: And you've been doing obviously, insurance marketing or been in the insurance base for a long time now. What is different about marketing for insurance companies versus general marketing for say retail?

Ketty Trivedi: I have been doing insurance for, I would say, over the last 40 years but I also have the privilege of working with a lot of clients. And my team and I, we work with a lot of our clients that are across various industries. So Ajay, when I think about what's really different, I don't think I necessarily see it as different than many other industries because at the end of the day, you're dealing with a customer. And a customer doesn't look at in the case of insurance what I will offer up is, a customer doesn't look at every engagement with the insurance company in isolation. They look at the engagement as a whole and that hasn't always been the case. I think that sometimes the realization of that is a lot bigger now. That is what I think is really different. The thing to keep in mind is how do we continue to nurture a deeper relationship with this customer across the entire customer journey? Especially in the case of insurance all the way from onboarding, implementation, enrollment to servicing through innovation, agility, and technology. I would say that is really the different mindset or the different approach that we have to continue to lean into.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Ketty, I think now's a great time to talk about it because it's the beginning of the year. That's usually when companies start to look at that. I'd love to get your take on what do companies usually look for in insurance for their employees?

Ketty Trivedi: So what a company will typically look for when they're purchasing insurance coverage or figuring out what's the right policy for their employees, it's really all about what's the plan coverage. Is it competitively priced for my employees? How has the carrier, the insurance carrier ranked on service and administration capabilities? Do they have the right service and administration capabilities to really be part of their overall benefit strategy? Because ultimately, what they want is at the end of the day is, they want their employees to have a seamless customer experience. And they also want to ensure that whatever insurance coverage that they're offering, that forms to be a part of their overall benefit strategy. So those are some of the key factors that I would say that a company would typically look for.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Nice. We appreciate that. Ketty, I want to talk to you about marketing in general. We talked about insurance specifically, but as you said, you've been a marketer for you said 20 years. You've been in it 20, 23 years. I won't keep harping on the years. We both are young, you and I. Ajay, maybe, not so much, but talk to us about what you think some of the most successful traits as a marketer is. What should people be really looking into doing what they're marketing to become successful?

Ketty Trivedi: Yeah, yeah. We're living in really interesting times today, where we have data at our disposal and we have to be really respectful and mindful, in terms of how we leverage that. So from my perspective, I would say that the most important thing to keep in mind as a marketer is understanding your customer profile. Understanding the customer profile and staying close to the market and environmental challenges. Understanding these factors will allow us or enable you to basically build and tailor the marketing journey, which is, think about the marketing journey as value proposition, content, strategy, engagement, and servicing. Understanding these, I think, is critical because it gives us an ability to really build the most important aspect of that. Your second question, or your add- on question was around how do we stay successful or how do I stay successful? For me, what I've learned in my time is staying successful requires having a learning mindset. And I'm quite sure that you, as well as our listeners, would agree with that because the time that we live in today, ability to constantly learn, and pivot and understand in terms of what's going on helps us. But for me personally, it's having a learning mindset, keeping a consistent pulse on just trends and market environment. And not just in the insurance industry or in the financial services' organization, but I have to keep a consistent pulse on just trends and marketing, and what's happening from a marketing perspective across other industries. I think that learning is just amazing because that gives you the ability, in terms of how individuals or companies are solving for customer challenges. Balancing the use of data and creativity, I think is extremely key. Then the most important thing is personal, which is understanding how things are evolving and changing. And how are we, as individuals, upskilling ourselves on new capabilities and approaches to ensure that we're able to contribute to just business growth. So I would say those are some of the key aspects, in terms of how I feel it's important to stay successful, as well as continue evolving yourself too.

Ajay Gupta: It's so rare to see somebody stay at the same job for as many as years as you have these days, when average person is changing jobs every couple of years. So what is your favorite part of your job and how have they kept you this long?

Ketty Trivedi: Yeah. So I'll tell you, I haven't been a chief marketing officer at Prudential Group Insurance for 13 years. I've been very fortunate to have been part of Group Insurance for the last 13 years, but my role has evolved every two to three years. I've done a lot of different things and I've been chief marketing officer for the last two years now. So the favorite part of my job is, again, as I said, just solving challenges and meeting customer requirements. We're upfront with customers, we engage with distribution. We're brought in as marketers to really align on how do we develop a plan, a program? How do we communicate that and engage with our customers? We've seen more of that through is really exciting, because you need to be using your creative and data skills, as well as your marketing skills to really bring ultimately the program or the plan together to create the best result for the customer. I would say that's the favorite part of my work.

Ajay Gupta: And it sounds like you must have taken over the time when pandemic was just starting. So how was that like and how have things changed for you during the pandemic?

Ketty Trivedi: Yeah. I actually, I will tell you that's a great question because I came into this role in April 2020. And I still remember that March 15th is where the workplace changed for us. We all were remote starting that day, at least within our company. But what's been interesting for me personally, is that I've seen that the workplace, the workforce, the customer mindset of how we engage and evolve with even our clients, all of that changed radically. And we didn't have the time or the ability to say," All right, here is a problem and how do we solve it? Do we take our time? We have to really pivot." So the learning of really our ability to have that organizational agility to be able to pivot and move to what was needed was really key. So that was what really came to life for me. Professionally, I will tell you one thing that I have learned is that the level of change, no matter how hard or easy at times, it's always followed with opportunity. And that's what I would say my team and I lean to work, and we drove back to the ground. So that was one of the biggest learnings for me during the pandemic.

Vincent Pietrafesa: And Ketty, because you're in that role, and I love your story because a lot of the research that we've done prior to this is seeing that you started out and now you're the CMO. Congratulations, by the way. Talk to us about how difficult it has been, or has it, or some tips out there to stay engaged with your team. You probably were doing hiring during this time to keep morale up. This is always something that our listeners love hearing from CMOs about how to do it. I would love to hear more about that.

Ketty Trivedi: It's tough. I'll be honest with you. It's not easy, but I will also tell you that we have a phenomenal team. We've had a team that has stayed together, that has pulled through together. We've had folks that have left, as part of over the last two years, but we've had a lot of new folks that have come onto our teams too. What's been interesting, I would say, for us is simple things in terms of engagement, which is how are we making sure that we're connected? How are we making sure that we're offering our team the ability for having the effort of just work- life balance, for example? How are we making sure that we have the ability where the teams are able to communicate more clearly and more openly? So whether it is things like open hours, whether it is things like bringing the teams together on a regular basis to communicate and engage with the team. Bringing in individuals to talk about just how positive thinking can impact assessments. Making sure that we're providing them with open forums for discussion, whether if they have questions. And I have to give this to our organization as Prudential, which is it's been amazing with the capabilities and the resources that we've been offered. And that we've had at our disposal so that we are able to not just take care of work, but also take of life. So those have been some key things that we've really focused on from an engagement perspective.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Thanks for sharing. And Ketty, you mentioned what you love about work, but has there been a highlight or a shining moment the last few years you want to talk about?

Ketty Trivedi: I would say that the highlight professionally, is it's just as a leader, when you see your team thrive and when you see your team really excel at what they do and grow, I think that's been probably one of the best things for me to see just, in terms of their career paths, in terms of how they've evolved. And something that I've learned over my career is paying it forward. I like to be not just a leader, but I take great pride in also mentoring and coaching my team from a career path perspective. So to be able to see that and to see how they've excelled is, I would say, that's probably one of the amazing things for me.

Ajay Gupta: So Ketty, one of our standard, staple questions, it has to do with LinkedIn. And especially given your title and where you work, I'm sure you get a tremendous amount of unsolicited messages on LinkedIn and email. So what's a message that gets through to your inbox that you're actually going to respond to? And more importantly, what's one that really annoys you like a pet peeve?

Ketty Trivedi: Yeah. I'll tell you that if it's a message coming to my inbox, what gets my attention is when someone is interested in having a conversation about, again, a challenge, or an opportunity, or something that's happening where they want to have a conversation, or they want to have sometimes a discussion that will aid some ability in driving a result. When I see something on LinkedIn, what really interests me is personal stories of accomplishments. Individuals that are overcoming struggles and challenges. I think LinkedIn has become an area where folks are always posting really amazing stories, looking at what they're doing and how they're overcoming challenges or struggles. I think that always gets my attention because I think that that's really inspiring. And when you see some of this, I think inspiration is nowadays key, not only professionally to an individual, but I would say inspiration is key to life.

Ajay Gupta: And tell us a little bit about your personal side. What are some of your hobbies? What do you like to do outside of work?

Ketty Trivedi: Love music, love traveling. I have family so we love to travel. But I spend a lot of my time nowadays, I would say, as a mom really get infusing my kids' hobbies, I would say, so definitely music and travel are more so my hobbies. When I was younger, I used to love dancing a lot, but now I tend to dance with my daughter a lot more, but I don't really practice it anymore.

Vincent Pietrafesa: I share in that same hobby. I love to dance. A lot of it now is with my children as well. Talk about that. What are your favorite genre? Do you like to dance to just anything?

Ketty Trivedi: I actually started dancing at the age of three, according to my parents. I've trained in five forms of dance, Indian classical, ballet, ballroom, contemporary and jazz. I would say it's pretty varied at this point.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Wow. There's a little secret about me. Ajay might know this. This is the biggest, shocking thing that I think when people meet me for the first time and there's a dance floor is my dance moves, I think. Ajay, wouldn't you agree, because I'm a bigger guy? I'm 6' 1", 220 pounds. People are like," You're like a little gazelle out there." At least I say that to myself. I'm not classically trained like that.

Ajay Gupta: Actually, I'm trying to think. I've known you for 10 plus years, but I don't think I've actually seen you dance.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Come on. What do you mean you haven't seen me dance? That's usually the biggest thing. That's the big secret about me is when I'm out there, they're like," Look how he moves like an angel." I don't know. At least I say that. But I was in a lot of theater, Ketty, so some of those moves like traditional moves. Now I dance with my kids. I must have played Ed Sheeran's music all weekend that we danced to. Of course, Baby Shark, if I have to hear that song one more time, forget it. I'm going to throw Alexa out the window. But what do you mean you never knew that about me, Ajay?

Ajay Gupta: I guess I'll have to pay more attention when things reopen.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah. All right. Well, at least two of us know how to dance at least on this podcast here because I have seen you. I'm kidding. Ketty, talk to us about your career because we have a lot of students who listen to this. There's a lot of people in marketing still at entry level, just coming in. Talk to us about some of the most valuable things you've learned in your career. And also, what would you say to someone just getting into marketing?

Ketty Trivedi: Yeah. I would say that some of the most valuable things that I've learned throughout my career, and I think I still continue to learn them, is that you have to be an active listener. An active listener when you are an associate or an active listener when you're leading a team. It's extremely important. Having a very clear strategy, or an approach, or an objective is extremely important. But what I've learned is that our ability to truly communicate that is even more important. The more you communicate, the better it is. Aligning individuals is extremely critical. Something that I would say over the last 18 months that has been probably one of the biggest learnings is process is important. But the importance of just organizational agility and ensuring that there's nimbleness, that there's flexibility, that folks are aligned. And the ability to bring people together so that they can pivot, and they can deliver on just given all of the change that we're facing on a constant basis. So these are some really critical learnings that I would say that I've learned throughout my career. But one of the learnings that I firstly learned and I continue to learn that and it fascinates me is that as a leader, building a team of associates or leaders that are diverse and complimentary is not just a necessary aspect or good, but it is so needed. It is so needed. Don't clone yourself. You have to bring on individuals that have different traits, but that can also work together as a team. And when you do this, magic happens. So this is something that I would say is definitely a key learning, and something that I continue to learn and continue to follow.

Vincent Pietrafesa: I love that. I love that. And Ketty, again, because the personal side of this thing, any shows and music or movies that you've been watching, any books? Our listeners love hearing that. We get a lot from people who are like," Oh, wow. I'm reading the same book as the CMO of Prudential Group Insurance." We'd love to hear that before we wrap here.

Ketty Trivedi: Absolutely. So music, personally, I'm a huge Bryan Adams fan. I was listening to one of the albums throughout the holidays and just love that music. In terms of the book, I literally, I think around the holidays, I started reading President Obama's biography and I haven't finished it yet. I am on page 46 and it's really interesting. So I would say those are the two things definitely that I'd like to share.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's amazing. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's been Ketty Trivedi. Thank you so much, Ketty, for spending some time with us and we really do appreciate it. I'm Vincent Pietrafesa, that's Ketty Trivedi. She's the CMO of Prudential Group Insurance. That's Ajay Gupta. This has been another episode of Stirista's The Marketing Stir. Happy New Year again, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you always for listening. Have a great day.

Vin: Thanks for listening to The Marketing Stir Podcast by Stirista. Please like, rate and subscribe. If you're interested in being a guest on the podcast, email us at themarketingstir @ stirista. com. Thanks for listening.