Kelley Butler (Director of Marketing Content, Businessolver) - Amplify and Drive

Ben: Welcome to The Marketing Stir Podcast by Stirista, probably the most entertaining marketing podcast you're going to put in your ear. I'm Ben, the associate producer here at Stirista. The goal of this podcast is to chat with industry leaders and get their take on the current challenges of the market, and we'll have a little fun along the way. In today's episode, Vincent and AJ chat with Kelly Butler, director of marketing content at Business Solver. She talks about the importance of utilizing marketing channels and targeting the right audience, whether it's online or print. Vincent can dance, and AJ can sing. Give it a listen.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Stirista's The Marketing Stir. I, of course, am your host. I'm working with some new equipment here, ladies and gentlemen, so hopefully I'm coming in crystal clear. It's so good to be here on The Marketing Stir. I'm Vincent Pietrafesa, Stirista's Vice President of B2B Products and Partnerships, still Interim General Manager. I love that title, I still have it. Who knows how much longer, but it's been a while, almost a year, Ajay, I had that title. That, of course, is our cohost. I'll get to him in a moment. But let's pause. Let's talk about Stirista for just 30 seconds. The elevator pitch, that's all you're going to get out of us at Stirista. It's not about us. It's about the guest. It's about you, the listener. Stirista, we are a marketing technology company. We own our own data, business-to- business, business- to- consumer. We help people get new customers. Who couldn't use new customers? We also own our own DSP called AdStir. We could help with Connected TV, that's new. A lot of people are using that. Even on the B2B side, that's an emerging channel there. Display, OTT, email me, vincent @ stirista. com. I love hearing from you about our services. I also love hearing about the podcast. Thank you for the positivity. I also like that you are now coming up to me. This is a real cool moment, Ajay. I don't know if you've been to a lot of conferences lately, but people coming up to me," Hey man, I love that podcast. You guys are making some sweet music." I said,"Thank you. I really appreciate that." So speaking of sweet music, the maestro right there, he's on the base, ladies and gentlemen. He's our CEO, my co- host, live from San Antonio, Mr. Ajay Gupta. What's up, Ajay?

Ajay Gupta: Sweet music. I guess we'll have to start doing some karaoke together, Vincent.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Exactly. I've heard you do karaoke. Not many people have heard me do it. It's a mystery whether I can sing or not, but I've heard you do it. You've got the voice. You got honey voice, Ajay.

Ajay Gupta: I guess you can dance. I can sing. We seem to have beginnings of a band maybe.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah, hidden talents. What's the thing that shocks them the most about, yeah, when they meet me, it's like, I am an amazing dancer. People are like," You're six one, two hundred and twenty pounds." It's like," You move like a little angel." I said," Thank you so much." That last part I added in. That was all me. No one's actually ever said that to me. I say I moved like an angel. How does an angel move? No one knows. Anyway, it's good to hear from you. We're record.... I love the Friday podcast. It's relaxed, right? We have an amazing guest. Again, I already chatted with her. I feel like I know her. One of the great ones, one of the cool ones, but looking forward to having you. When this airs, you would've already been visiting in New York City. It would've been... It's already a great trip. I could tell we've got an amazing lineup. We've got a VIP cocktail reception going on. Anyone listening? Well, it'll be too late. Sorry, maybe the next one, but it will be a good one, so looking forward to that, what, what are you looking forward to when you come here to the big apple, as I call it.

Ajay Gupta: Yeah, I think this is our first in person event. I mean, we've had a few internal ones. This is the first one that's external facing, so looking forward to seeing some of our clients and prospects out in a, kind of going about in a normal setting, so that should be pretty exciting.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Absolutely. I agree. I think it's going to be a fun time. We are going to have... It's New York City. The weather should hold up nicely. It'll be 90 degrees this weekend, here in late May or early June, but it will be great to see you. Let's get right into it. I love getting into it. People were like," All right, we get it." You guys, you know, we're going to have some fun in New York, but let's get to our amazing guest, a company called Business Solver. We're going to learn about it, but we have a very amazing guest. She's really fun. Ladies and gentlemen, she's the director of marketing content, Kelly Butler. What's going on, Kelly.

Kelly Butler: Hey, Vincent. Hi, Ajay. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Oh, absolutely. We're glad to have you calling in from DC, our neighbor to the... I don't know where it is from New York. Was it east, west?

Kelly Butler: South.

Vincent Pietrafesa: South, right?

Kelly Butler: Yeah. inaudible

Vincent Pietrafesa: Exactly. Right. Yeah. I've been there a few times. Never did that eighth grade trip that a lot of people do to DC. Everyone's like... They tell me about," Oh, we went on this great..."

Kelly Butler: Yep.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Your school just had more money than mine. That's apparently what that is. So Kelly, we're happy that you're here. Thank you for joining us on a Friday to the Marketing Stir. We welcome you. Kelly, talk to us. I'd like to get right into it. Let's talk about Business Solver. I would love to learn more about the organization, have our listeners learn more. Talk about your specific role, content. I love hearing that. We haven't had too many people on the podcast dedicated just content. We'd love to hear about it.

Kelly Butler: Sure. Of course. And I love to talk about it, so it's great. Business Solver is a mid- size technology company that specializes in software and services that help employers connect their employees to their benefits. So our technology platform is the connective tissue, basically, between what an employer would offer its employees from a benefits perspective and the employee experience with those benefits. So when you enroll in your medical plan, in a flexible spending account, if you have access to one, or a health savings account, any life insurance that your employer adds, or any disability buys that you might want to make, the Business Solver platform helps connect all of that. And then at the same time, does some communication and education to help people understand those benefits a little bit better. Most people don't think about their benefits very much beyond that two week window when people say they have to enroll. And so we help to provide a space and a hub for people to engage year round as they need to, depending on their life event, their family status, or just their general needs.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah. Very interesting and very necessary.

Kelly Butler: Absolutely.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Talk to us, Kelly. We love this question. It's one of our staples. We have a few that our listeners love hearing about, especially because we have a lot of students and there's a lot of entry level guests, I'm sorry, listeners listening to the podcast. Talk to us how you got into marketing. We always love to hear that path.

Kelly Butler: Yeah. So I thought that my path into marketing was unique, and I have learned, over the course of my career, that it is very much not. So I started out as a journalist, was a journalism and communication major in college, and then got right into the journalism field. I was very fortunate to find a job right away, lots of empathy and love to my gen Zs that are getting ready to graduate, trying to hunt for that first job. But yeah, started out at a really small trade publication and learned the ins and outs of publishing. We were still publishing in print back then. And so learned all about the editorial process, how it relates to advertising and metrics related to running a publication. And then ultimately was able to become editor in chief of a publication of my own. And magazine called Employee Benefit News, which is a trade publication that's specifically for HR and employee benefits professionals telling their stories about their successes, their struggles within the industry, as they try to connect their people to the benefits that they offer. And so I did that for almost a decade and had all three of my kids during my time there. And then after my third maternity leave, realized that no one had really missed me all that much, and that perhaps I had trained my team and developed my team a little bit too well, and that maybe it was time to take my cue as to start looking for the next leap in my career. And around that same time, I reached out to a source, someone who I had called multiple times to interview about benefits and how to communicate them well. And she said, have you ever thought about marketing? She was like," You're a great communicator. You know a lot about benefits. Have you ever thought about marketing that?" And I was like," Huh. Yeah, that could be something." And so parlayed that into my very first marketing role with a marketing communications agency that specialized only in employee benefits. And then from there, turned that into marketing roles with various benefits technology companies, which is what led me to Business Solver.

Ajay Gupta: So Kelly, talking about your current role a little bit more, what are some of the channels and strategies that are working for you guys?

Kelly Butler: So obviously the internet is a thing, and so we do very little with print anymore. And when we do do print messaging for marketing purposes, it's very targeted, as you would imagine, very segmented to different buyer personas or specific milestones in the buyer journey. But other than that, everything that we do is digital. And so in my role at Business Solver, I lead the content team in creating all of our thought leadership, all of our brand messaging, and how to amplify the Business Solver story and amplify the brand ambassadors that we use to tell the Business Solver story and the message. Make it really cohesive and tight online, we know those attention spans are short, with really engaging digital visuals as well.

Ajay Gupta: And Kelly, are there any common hiccups in the benefit enrollment process? And how do you ensure a smooth onboarding?

Kelly Butler: Yeah, so I mean, I think that it's a common misperception that benefits only really matter in two points in your life, when you start a new job, and when you have a life event. So if your life changes in some huge way, if you get married, if you have a baby, if you enter into a caregiving situation or have an unexpected illness, those are the times when people think about their benefits most, but the thing that Business Solver tries to get across with our clients, and by extension, their employees, is that your benefits are working for you all the time, whether you realize it or not, and you're paying for them every two weeks out of your paycheck. And so that consistent year round engagement outside of that enrollment window, and outside of that life event situation is when we really try to communicate and engage. So that's where most of the hiccups do occur, is that people aren't thinking in those terms. And so we try to capture moments in time that align to benefits information. So for example, milestones according to age, and making sure that gender specific healthcare is something that we're communicating and making sure to be like," Hey, by the way, your plan covers this at 100%. Go ahead and make that appointment." And there's a service within the Business Solver platform that helps people book those appointments, find providers that are in network and just make that process really seamless, so that those hiccups decrease and the way that people engage with their benefits feels more organic and consistent.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Kelly, do you pull from your journalism background to really help you now with the content side?

Kelly Butler: One hundred percent. I mean, as a journalist, there was not many things that I disliked or deleted more quickly than a press release. And so I'm constantly thinking about that in my role now, thinking," Okay, will a journalist read this? If not, why not? How can we change it? How can we punch it up? How can we bring the message forward so that they'll make it past that first paragraph?" So definitely thinking about ways that we can connect with journalists and media. I mean, we still need those folks more than ever to help amplify and drive our message forward. And so it's been really helpful to have that background and know kind of what the people on that side of the table want and need to hear.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah. And let's talk about this as well, because Business Solver as far benefits, employee benefits, there's other very large provider or companies out there that people may know of. What separates Business Solver? What's the differentiator?

Kelly Butler: Yeah. So I like to think of business solve, not necessarily as a small fish in a small pond. I think that we're more like a baby shark in a small pond. We're small, but mighty. And I think that what sets us apart is our people. One hundred percent when we go into situations where we're trying to win new business, we hear that more often than not, it's the solvers who come and make that connection, who speak to teams with genuine and authenticity, from the heart, talking about what our organization is capable of, what we promise to deliver. And that is a big part of our brand message as well. I think it's just as important as the product we produce. At the end of the day, code is binary, ones and zeros to make it work, but it's the people that drive it forward, and we like to call that technology with heart.

Ajay Gupta: Kelly, can you share us any exciting news or anything that's up and coming for the company?

Kelly Butler: Oh, of course. So right now, Business Solver is about four weeks out, we're about a month away from our annual conference. We call it Vision, just as a way of thinking forward, right? You want your vision to be 2020 at all times. We're not big fans of hindsight at Business Solver. We always want to be forward thinking and forward leaning. And so our vision event is always themed around just that, how to capture those strategies and the data and the insights to keep your organization looking forward and moving forward on behalf of your people. And so this year, we obviously have to acknowledge and address the great resignation. And so our Vision event will be talking about how if the great resignation is the disease, then culture is the cure. And so we've got a great speaker lineup ready to talk about all of that and really drive those messages home from different topic perspectives. So we're going to be talking about burnout and mental health and addressing that for your employees, as they try to hang on. As we're even easing out of the pandemic, the mental health effects are still lingering for a lot of people. We're going to be talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion, how to make your employees of all stripes, races, ages, demographics, abilities feel seen, heard, and valued and understood in the workplace. So talking about that, talking a lot about how to create an authentic culture, and what that looks like for each individual organization, understanding that's a very insular kind of enterprise, trying to think about that culture and how to create that in a way that's organic to any individual organization. So that's going to be happening June 23rd and 24th. If you are interested, I will always make the shameless plug. It's businesssolver. com/ vision. And you can check out the agenda, all of our speaker lineup and register right there for free.

Ajay Gupta: And Kelly, is this online event or in person?

Kelly Butler: It is. It is normally an in person event, but we are still, out of just an abundance of caution for everyone involved, making it a virtual event this year, but we definitely hope to be seeing people in person again at Vision in 2023.

Ajay Gupta: Gotcha. So related to that, how obviously a lot of events have gone virtual, but how else has the pandemic affected the company and the messaging and employees?

Kelly Butler: I mean, it's made it... I definitely feel for our product team. They've had to do a lot of quick pivots in terms of how we can create a nimble enough platform to respond to all of the different needs that our clients are facing through the pandemic. So we quickly innovated to create a tracking system that would help employers be able have employees upload their vaccination status, if that was something that they felt was necessary to their organization, especially if they were bringing employees back to work on site, and a compliant and safe and secure way for employees to feel comfortable uploading that information, and a safe and secure way for employers to keep track of it just for health and emergency purposes. There were also a lot of changes legally, different subsidies for different benefits, different subsidies for Cobra. A lot of employers had the unfortunate decision to have to lay off employees. And so we manage Cobra on the Business Solver platform as well for benefits continuation, if the worst happens and you lose your job in all of this. So it was a very busy time. And mostly, we try to communicate, over communicate with our clients as much as possible, knowing that information and knowledge is power, to help them make the best decisions that they could, usually on a very short notice,

Vincent Pietrafesa: Kelly, I want to get into some of the specifics, Business Solver, what it is that you all do. What do you think is the most important aspect for onboarding a new employee?

Kelly Butler: I think making sure that you put a culture stake in the ground right from the beginning, and that your benefits are usually the first way that new hires experience an organizational culture. So when you think about, yes, I'm accepting the offer and I'm joining this new organization, usually the thing that comes right after that is, what kind of computer do you need? And here's our benefits package. And that is usually the first door that an employee gets into what it's going to be like really working at this organization. Am I going to be on a Mac or a PC? And do I have a PPO? Do I have an HMO? What does that look like? What does it cover? How deep and vast is the network? If I have a mental health challenge, are there benefits and coverage for that? Who do I reach out to for help and assistance? I'm a caregiver, or I'm a parent. Where are the benefits that help me manage that part of my life? And so I think that infusing your culture into your benefits package is underestimated by a lot of employers, but I think is the really big, important first step for employers to take in making sure that employee feels immediately seen and valued within that organization.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Nice. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Also, Kelly, I wanted to talk about, you had mentioned, so Business Solver, it could be the only benefits package, only benefits software, or you could kind of plug in or add additional value. Say someone already has one. So I want to ask you what are kind of the pros and cons of being, I would say carrier agnostic?

Kelly Butler: We love that term. We use it inaudible. But yes, I mean, carrier agnosticism is an important part of driving our business forward. Without it, I don't know that we would be as successful as an organization. So just being nimble and meeting our clients where they are in terms of both their technology capability and functionality and where they're looking to go. So we always like to say stabilization, and then personalization. So we meet you where you are and we figure out what systems or technology you're using now, what do you absolutely want and need to keep? And then where would you like to be, in a perfect world, five, 10 years from now from a benefits perspective? And so we help to bridge that gap with the different technologies that we offer, and being carrier agnostic, saying, "Okay, if these are the carriers that you're using now, awesome, but we also have some partnerships over here that might be additive in terms of value in creating that one singular benefits hub for all of your employees."

Ajay Gupta: And Kelly, given that benefits is usually not a very sexy topic, how do you make that engaging?

Kelly Butler: Well, first of all, I disagree. I have spent most of my 20 plus year career in the benefits industry, in one way or another. And I am someone who gets bored easily. And so if it was boring, I definitely would've been out of here a long, long time ago. So maybe not sexy per se, but definitely interesting, definitely engaging, and definitely vital. 125 million, give or take, people all across this country get their benefits from their employer, and Business Solver helps nearly a thousand companies to do that and do that well. And especially during the pandemic, reaching into people's homes through the screen to really engage and communicate with them in a way, and during a time when a lot was uncertain and providing that certainty, providing that security, that safety has just been invaluable. And I think that a lot of people... And I hate that there was a global pandemic that made it necessary. I think a lot of people really realized how important their benefits are and are learning a lot more about them as a result, and that's really gratifying.

Ajay Gupta: Okay. This is a fun one. So as an ex journalist who likes to read and write, what book recommendations do you have that you've read recently?

Kelly Butler: Oh, very recently, I read Bad feminist by Roxanne Gay. And so learned a lot about taking my" bad feminism" into the world and driving that forward from a DE& I perspective. I think it's really important to be an advocate, as well as an ally, for all of the groups where your identities intersect. And so that was a really great read for me personally that I'm hoping to make additive to my professional life as well. And then right now, I'm reading The Storyteller by Dave Grohl. I'm a huge nineties baby, so big fan of Nirvana and all things grunge. Big fan of the Foo Fighters as well. And so getting to read Dave's story from his own perspective of that whole time is just fascinating.

Vincent Pietrafesa: I am a nineties kid. I graduated college in 2019. 1990 was middle school, so sixth, seven, eighth grade all the way through. Guess who I just saw live the other day on Wednesday, Kelly? The Offspring. Remember The Offspring?

Kelly Butler: Oh, wow. Okay.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah. That's taken us.... I remember 1996 listening to songs. Yeah, it was right here in South Street Seaport when I saw the Foo Fighters. That's a good recommendation. I didn't realize there was a book out there. I have to check that one out. Love me some Dave Grohl, saw the Foo Fighters live as well. So that's inaudible. The Offspring, they still brought it. They still brought that heat.

Kelly Butler: Wow. That's amazing.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Remember that? Yeah. What about you, Ajay? You were around that time. You're not much younger than me. Do you remember The Offspring?

Ajay Gupta: Of course, yeah.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah.

Ajay Gupta: I mean, you're a little bit older, but-

Vincent Pietrafesa: Got no self esteem. Yeah, they rocked it out. Love it. Love that we share that. I wanted to talk about something that, Ajay, you and I were just talking about this. We were just emailing about it, empathetic leadership. What is, to you, empathetic leadership?

Kelly Butler: So, I mean, empathy, at its root, is just the ability to take the perspective of another person. All the cliches, walk a mile in their shoes, see life through their eyes, all of that is empathetic living. And then when you do that on behalf of people that you work with and whose careers you've been tasked to help shape and lead, that's empathetic leadership. And I think that it's a very individualized pursuit, not... We're all born with the capacity to develop empathy, but at different degrees. And so I think that flexing your empathy muscles, it's a skill that can be learned, is a really important component of successful leadership, because the people that you lead ultimately want to feel seen and valued for exactly who they are as individuals, and the only way to do that and to give them great and successful careers as a result is through empathy. So I'm a huge advocate for empathetic leadership.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Nice. Yeah, as are we. I want to talk about, because benefits packages today are not our grandfather's benefits package, right?

Kelly Butler: Not at all.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Not at all, right? And so I just want to talk about advice on building out kind of an inclusive benefit strategy.

Kelly Butler: So, I mean, I think that's different for every employer. I think that now with employers mostly working either in a full remote or some sort of hybrid workplace setup, it's important to think from coast to coast, and border to border, about what people need from their benefits. What people need from their benefits and expect from their benefits, frankly, is going to be different in the Pacific Northwest, as opposed to LA County, as opposed to Houston, as opposed to Des Moines, Iowa, where Business Solver is headquartered. And so I think that employers who don't think in that holistic way, again, with that empathy, thinking about what others need and others' perspectives, is to their detriment, if they're not thinking in those terms. And so thinking first about, I think empathy will automatically make your benefit strategy more inclusive, because you're thinking about people across all stripes and spectrums of life, as opposed to your personal experience.

Ajay Gupta: So Kelly, this is a question we like to ask all of our guests. So one of the things that probably happens to you is you get a lot of unsolicited messages on LinkedIn.

Kelly Butler: Yes.

Ajay Gupta: And so the question is this, what's a message that really annoys you, and one that is likely to get a response from you?

Kelly Butler: One that annoys me is when people haven't done their homework, don't really have a good idea of what I do, my role within my organization, what I'm responsible for. If you're messaging on LinkedIn, it's because you've checked my LinkedIn profile, and so those are things that you can know or discern, and things that you should incorporate into your message. So if you have clearly no idea what I do specifically and it seems like a pretty cut and pasted generic message, that is automatically getting moved to archive. And then on the flip side of that, I mean, when... I mean, I know that sales people and business development reps have a really difficult job, to have to reach out and hear nothing, or worse, hear no right back. I can't imagine. I'm not built for that kind of rejection. So I'm glad and I empathize that they do, but you got to do your homework, right? So people that lift a line from my LinkedIn profile or notice and congratulate me on some of the accomplishments that are listed there, some of the things that I've said that Business Solver is working on or things that I've liked or celebrated from other people in my network always at least get me to read the whole message, if not respond, if it's a fit. And if it's not, I'm happy to refer them to someone else in my network who might be more open and receptive, but you got to do your homework first, for sure.

Ajay Gupta: What I've started doing is... So, I mean, obviously it's very annoying when somebody keeps messaging you over and over, but some of the SDRs now I'm thinking," Oh, this is somebody I should hire. They seem annoyingly persistent, but it might be good if they're working for us instead."

Kelly Butler: That's always like a really difficult call to make, because I am firm in the anti camp of harassment marketing. And I think that persistence and harassment, there's a very thin line in between.

Ajay Gupta: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yes, absolutely. No, I agree. But one of the things you said, I like because, well, we've gotten some feedback from people where they say, even if it's the no, even if you give a no, they're happy. There's a button on LinkedIn where you can simply hit no, I'm not interested, especially if it's... What are those? A in mail.

Kelly Butler: Yeah.

Vincent Pietrafesa: So I'm like, I took time to read it. No, but yeah, harassment marketing, yeah, that is a term that is-

Kelly Butler: It is, unfortunately. Yeah.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Exactly. Sorry, go ahead, Ajay.

Ajay Gupta: Yeah, no, the last one for me is a little bit more on the personal side because we like to mix it up a little bit. So what are some of the hobbies that you have? What do you like to do for fun?

Kelly Butler: Obviously I love to read for fun. I just am in love with words, and so love to read. I also write, I also journal quite a bit, and have been working on a book for the better part of two years. Still working on finalizing that. And yes, I do even write in my spare time. So we'll see where that journey takes me next. But other than that, if I'm not doing something word related, I'm hanging out with my people. So I have a wonderful husband, three wonderful children, and they are just the light of my heart and my life. And so any time that I get to spend with them. I have two teenagers, so it's not a lot of time.

Vincent Pietrafesa: They don't want to be with mom all the time. Yeah.

Kelly Butler: They don't want to hang with mom so much anymore, so any moments that I can steal away are definitely cherished ones.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's awesome. And Kelly, finally, some closing thoughts, some advice for people out there, marketing, trying to get into the business? Just love to hear those final thoughts.

Kelly Butler: Yeah. I always tell people to find a mentor. No matter where you're at in your career or in your life, you always are going to need that village of people, if not that one person who gets you in all aspects of your life and has no other vested interest in it other than helping it be as big and beautiful as possible. And I have been so very fortunate to have a lot of mentors in my life personally, professionally, to help me navigate working motherhood, career changes. I mean, I changed industries. I changed career paths at a probably very inopportune time, and couldn't have done that and been successful at it without the mentoring relationships that I had. So I definitely would encourage people to find a mentor. It doesn't even necessarily have to be someone in your industry or someone who is in your exact profession, but someone who understands you and where you need to go and has a network that can help you get there.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah. I like that. And also just don't be scared to do it, right?

Kelly Butler: Yeah.

Vincent Pietrafesa: We talked to our interns about it. And as we're hiring interns, we preach that. Don't be scared. I mean, if you reach out to someone and he or she doesn't get back to you or doesn't have time and you're a student or you're eager to learn, that's not cool. So, most people will-

Kelly Butler: Yes, they will.

Vincent Pietrafesa: ...reach back out to you. Even if they don't have the time or they could recommend someone else. I love that advice that has been... This has been awesome. Kelly. Thank you so much. Your passions shines through.

Kelly Butler: Thank you.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's Kelly Butler, ladies and gentlemen, the director of marketing content at Business Solver. Check out Business Solver. There's a conference coming up. Check that out. It's open to all. It's virtual.

Kelly Butler: Yep. Open to all, free to all.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Free to all. It's virtual. Join. It'll be helpful. Benefits are very serious business. People now are looking at companies based on their benefits, the great resignation, as you said. It's other factors nowadays. It's not all just about inaudible. It's not maybe not all about money. So it's just-

Kelly Butler: No.

Vincent Pietrafesa: ...other things that come into play. Kelly, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on the Marketing Stir. I hope our listeners love it. I know they will. I'm Vincent Pietrafesa. That's Kelly. That's Ajay Gupta. This has been another episode of the Marketing Stir. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon.

Ben: Thanks for listening to the Marketing Stir podcast by Stirista. Please like great and subscribe. If you're interested in being a guest on the podcast, please email us at themarketingstir @ stirista. com. And thanks for listening.