Ken Turner (Fanatics Collectibles) - Inertia of a Hobby

Speaker 1: Maybe big data has gotten too big. Whether you're a B2B marketer or a consumer brand, your data needs to be viable, relevant, and accessible, so that Stirista can help you retain customers, acquire customers, and make it personal.

Vin Lapsley: Welcome to The Marketing Stir podcast by Stirista, probably the most entertaining marketing podcast you're going to put in your ear. I'm Vin, the producer here at Stirista. Goal of this podcast is to chat with industry leaders and get their take on the current challenges of the market, and we'll have a little fun along the way. In today's episode, Ken Turner, the CMO of Fanatics Collectibles, chats with us about how commerce and upselling help a business thrive, as well as how performance marketing efforts make a business possible. Give it a listen.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Stirista's The Marketing Stir. I, of course, am your host, Vincent Pietrafesa, the Vice President of B2B Products and Partnerships here at Stirista, where I have a special outfit on. I have a jersey. This is Eli Manning's jersey. I missed Jersey Day. San Antonio, our headquarters, did a Jersey Day. Do they let me know? They did not. So I'm making it today, but it also has something to do with our guest. It's not Eli Manning, but I love him just the same. So don't worry, but we're going to be talking something that's near and dear to my heart. We'll get to that in a moment. Let's talk about two other things that are near and dear to my heart, the company I work for and my CEO, my cohost, you know him, we'll get to him in a moment. But let's talk about Stirista just for like 12 seconds. We don't accept advertising on this podcast. We just talk about us for a little bit. Stirista, we are a marketing technology company. We own our own business- to- business data, business- to- consumer data. We help companies access that data through our technology, our own email sending platform, our own demand- side platform, to help them get new customers. Who doesn't want new customers? My voice went really high on that. I don't know why. I'm 45. That shouldn't happen. But it's so good to be here. And ladies and gentlemen, calling in my CEO. He's here, Mr. Ajay Gupta. What's up, Ajay?

Ajay Gupta: Hey Vincent, we have some exciting new website developments coming up, so we'll have a brand new website coming up in Q4, so it's-

Vincent Pietrafesa: Love it.

Ajay Gupta: I lost track of time.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah, that's all right. We build on that, you know? We know our SVP of marketing to talk a lot. Yeah, but that's good. That's good. It's great to see. I have my jersey on. I have my jersey on today, because I missed it. This is Eli Manning the greatest New York Giant quarterback of all time. A lot of people say LT is the greatest giant of all time, eh, you know. Michael Strahan... But anyway, it's because this ties into the guest we have. I'm an actual customer of the organization that this gentleman represents. It's not often. Maybe this happened two other, three other times in 160 episodes, but I am extremely happy to have this gentleman on our podcast. Ajay, we've got a great one. We are talking to Fanatics Collectibles. You know how much of a fan I am of collectibles. Ladies and gentlemen, the CMO, Ken Turner. What's going on, Ken?

Ken Turner: Hey, what's going on? Thanks for having me. What's up, Ajay?

Vincent Pietrafesa: Love having you. Love having you here. Ken, we already talked. It's like I know Ken for a long time. Anytime you can talk sports, right? So Fanatics Collectibles, I'm an actual customer. I ordered from the Fanatics brand of companies this jersey, other jerseys, the new Messi jersey. I have my last piece of collectibles from your organization, the Mario Manningham catch from this same quarterback, Eli Manning, in Super Bowl XLVI, one of the happiest days of my life. Yes, I have kids, so also those days, but Super Bowl XLII and XLVI were amazing, were amazing. So yeah, it's great to have on a guest where I'm an actual customer of. So it's great to have you here, Ken.

Ken Turner: It's nice to be here.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Let's get right into it. Let's get right into it. I'm excited. Tell the people listening about your role within the organization. Tell us about the organization. A lot of people know Fanatics, right? But talk to us about the Fanatics Collectibles organization and your role.

Ken Turner: Yeah, for sure. And I'm a marketer, as you say, I may get long- winded. So maybe I'll just start with the overall thoughts and mission of Fanatics, full stop. Fanatics has a mission of building a global sports platform, a global platform that is digital. The fans are the center of that, and so the mission is really to serve fans across that platform. And doing that with sports, obviously, and I mean we could talk about sports all day. Every time we talk, we do talk about sports and at some point we'll have a debate over who's really the greatest Giants quarterback ever, because I think you sparked a couple of thoughts with that one. But what we want to do is offer the fan, the consumer, the collector, integrated, personalized experience across all of our businesses. If I just take a little bit of a step back in terms of just the history, I won't go back to 2002, maybe I'll go back to 2011 with Michael Rubin acquired Fanatics. At the time, it was really more design and manufacturing. It was what we call now our Commerce business. And so it was you buy that Eli Manning jersey, or you buy a jersey from Mario Manningham, which happens to be a Wolverine, then I mean that you got it from Fanatics. And then the business started to grow and there was this idea of how to connect fans and immerse them in sports. 10 years later, in 2021, Fanatics started Fanatics Collectibles, which is the business that I work on, and that is both physical and digital trading cards, primarily. In 2022, Fanatics acquired Topps, so Topps of the trading card phenomenon. And we know Topps and it has an enormous history, but that's not it. If we fast- forward to this year, two exciting, I'd say maybe two and a half exciting things are happening, Fanatics Sportsbook, which is Fanatics' betting and gaming, has launched and will continue to launch. And that's online and retail gambling and Sportsbook. And then Fanatics Live, which is our live shopping platform on e- commerce. That is also launched this year and announced this year to launch next year is a business we call Fanatics Events, which is the actual in- real- life experiences. So that makes up the ecosystem that is Fanatics, all built together to surround the fan with an immersive experience, and then basically elevate the experience of the fan. So that's Fanatics. Fanatics Collectibles is the business that I'm on as a CMO and as I mentioned, 2021 is when Fanatics Collectibles started, so two years in, and we're a growing business, man. It's really cool to be here.

Vincent Pietrafesa: I'm excited about especially the live events. That's fun for people and I can't wait to take my son to some of those events. I get to meet a lot of athletes because of the emcee work I do. We can talk about that another time. So that's amazing. So your role within the organization, you're their first CMO, if my numbers are correct there, right?

Ken Turner: Yeah, I'm the first CMO within Fanatics Collectibles. So we do have a CMO that is on our Commerce business, which is the main business that everyone kind of knows when they hear Fanatics. We also have a CMO on our Sportsbook, so Fanatics betting and gaming. And I'm the first CMO of Fanatics Collectibles.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Nice. Well, a question we always ask everyone, Ken, because it's usually not a straight path, your experiences are amazing, some of the companies you worked at, but let's take a step back. Let's go back to how you got into marketing in the first place.

Ken Turner: Yeah, it's interesting. I started off as a finance dude. I worked on mergers and acquisitions working at the Chicago Board of Trade. I can tell you right now, I don't think I own a tie anymore. Back then, I had a gang of ties, and then I did a career change because finance is great, it's amazing, it's a good foundation, but it just wasn't for me. And I wanted to get into more general management. So I went back to graduate school and then started in traditional CPG. I spent about a decade in traditional CPG at a company called SC Johnson, so it's Scrubbing Bubbles, Windex, Raid, Off!, those types of brands. And then got a call from a brand in a business called Red Bull, who was looking to build on their business that had become a little bit flat. And so I worked for Red Bull for about eight years and about six months ago I started here at Fanatics Collectibles.

Ajay Gupta: And Ken, what drew you from a new role from Red Bull, which is also a pretty well- known brand itself?

Ken Turner: Yeah, I would tell you, it's a great question. It's a question I get a lot. I usually answer the question before it's asked, but I wanted to not talk so much. I'll say Red Bull is an amazing company. It's an amazing organization that is really based in marketing fundamentals. Anytime you can go to a company, and as an example, someone says, " Hey, we want to throw a dude from outer space and see how that works." Nine out of 10 people say, " All right, let's figure it out," and the 10th person's probably the lawyer in the room. It's an amazing organization. It got to the point at Red Bull, which where it was so phenomenal that for me, the senior leaders that I had on my team were so good. It was opportunity to let them move forward and lead on their own. And so I started to look for something that was similar. I was looking for something that was Red Bull, but not Red Bull, but also gave me an opportunity to grow and build at the ground floor. Enter CEO of Fanatics Collectibles, of Mike Mahan and our chairman, Michael Rubin, where we just started to have conversations about Fanatics and Fanatics Collectibles. And so if I can give you a sneak peek into that first conversation, it is very similar to the conversations that we have had, which is it starts by talking about sports. I mean, that was literally our first conversation. I had mentioned I was from Wisconsin, I think it was Mike or Michael had asked me about my thoughts on Giannis versus Joel Embiid. If you know Michael, he's from Philly, he loves Joel Embiid. For the next 20 minutes we talked about basketball, really talked trash about basketball. It's that passion that really drew me to the organization. That, and the fact that the organization, specifically Collectibles, was looking to grow the number of collectors in the category, was looking to become culturally relevant, and was looking to build an organization that hadn't had marketing in a while in the category. And so all that was kind of, you know what, this is a really good next step for me. So going from one phenomenal organization to another phenomenal organization. It wasn't an easy choice to make. But six months later, I can tell you it's the best choice.

Ajay Gupta: Awesome. And Ken, I became, I guess more familiar with Red Bull. I tasted it the first time, I should say, we had Red Bull girls come by our office many years ago. So related to that, I know Fanatics does a lot in the digital space, but how's the live event aspect for Fanatics? Is that a big part of your brand and product?

Ken Turner: Not yet. It will be, though. So the events and experiences that we will offer, started in 2024, will be an experience by Fanatics. We've hired a CEO, Lance Fensterman of ReedPop, and if you know ReedPop, they're responsible for both New York and San Diego Comic- Con as well as a number of different events. And he is a phenomenal leader. What he's looking to do is, how do we create ownable events from a Fanatics perspective, and then how do we create our presence within third- party events? What's beautiful about it is the focus of Fanatics Events, in the near term, will be on the collectible space. So if you think about some of the trade shows where collectors go to trade things, but also hear about the latest and greatest from a card and memorabilia standpoint, that's where our focus will be first and foremost. So upleveling these trade shows and events, where if you went maybe last year, this year was pretty good, but if you went last year, it's probably the same as if you would've went in the'90s or the'80s. This year took a step up and then we're excited about the fact that it will continue to take steps up and then really enhance the experience of a collector.

Vincent Pietrafesa: You hit on something there I wanted to talk about, Ken and it's the'80s and the'90s, because that's my era. That's when I grew up. And I feel like Ajay's laughing because I am older than him, but that's okay. I embrace it. I feel like the renewed love and passion of the collectibles, it's great, but I feel like it's because of people like'80s and the '90s were so nostalgic and we are those adults now that have maybe discretionary income and you're wanting to buy stuff. I feel like it's just a renew... Why do you think that is, so many people get back into it?

Ken Turner: I think there's a couple of things. Some of this is real, some of it's just my point of view. I think nostalgia is cool now. I think when folks say, " Hey, let's take a look back on the things that were cool before." You see it in jerseys, you see it in teams, when they do the retro. I think it was one of the teams in this weekend, this past weekend in college football, that came out in the powder blue uniforms. It may have been in University of Houston. It is just kind of retro. I think the Oilers wore those jerseys for eight years. Eight years is not a long time, but it's like, this is cool. We've got the retro. And so you've got a bit of nostalgia where nostalgia is cool. The thing that's really interesting, intriguing, and cool about trading cards in the space is those cards represent memories. Memories on two folds. One, the memory that one has when they actually got that card. And two, the memory of what the card actually captured. I'll tell you about a card I had, and I no longer know where it is. I had a Darryl Strawberry Met card. It was one of the first cards that I had. I also had a Darryl Strawberry, I think you and I talked about it, the Darryl Strawberry signed jersey that walked away. I'm still trying to find it. I actually think my cousin took that one. But whenever I think about that card, I think about the Mets in'86 and I think about, that was an amazing time. You've got Strawberry, you've got Gooden, you've got all of the players and the Mets doing what no one thought that they could do. You've got the Mets and the Red Sox. Those memories are really, really cool. And you can all have that encapsulated in one card, and I think that's just me as an individual. But you combine that with the fact of one thing that is, I would say, inertia. And that happened to be the pandemic where folks were in their homes and similar to what you and I talked about, they walked into the attic or into the basement and they realized, " Hey, I've got a chest full of cards here. Let's take a look at that." And so that was one aspect of it. And then the other aspect of this, so most cards ended up being worth a lot of money because there are other folks like me looking for a Darryl Strawberry card or a Doc Gooden card. And then it became more extrinsic value as well to as the intrinsic value. Then it just took off. You and I were talking, it's the folks who've collected and now their children collecting. It's the inertia of the hobby. It's not only sports, it's things like Pokemon that's also taken off from a card perspective. You get all that momentum and you end up with an industry that continues to grow.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah, Darryl Strawberry is, and will always be, my favorite New York Met. I'm a big Mets fan growing up here in New York in the'80s, in the '90s, and it's so funny. I have a Strawberry card. It's not the one, I didn't take your card, Ken, but I have a Darryl Strawberry card. I have Doc Gooden. I got to meet Doc Gooden, who coincidentally that day was wearing a Mets jersey, an Eli Manning jersey, when I met him. It was so coincidental. Even this is a throwback, right? This is a throwback to the Giants of the'80s when they were winning Super Bowls there. Yeah, I think-

Ken Turner: Phil Simms. Yeah, that's great.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Phil Simms, I think that's going to be your argument for the best Giants quarterback. I think-

Ken Turner: It's got to be. It's got to be. I mean, you can go back further, but Phil Simms, you can make a pretty good case for that guy.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Yeah. Hey, I love me some Phil Simms. I'll talk about my favorite piece of memorabilia that I own and I would love to ask you that, but I want to get to, because interestingly Fanatics, it's really three core business units. And how is the marketing, is it all three teams working together, Ken? How is that marketing? Are you working, is influencing one team over another? How's it all meshing together to really promote all the brands?

Ken Turner: Yeah, you've got three core businesses that are in different stages in their growth. So in some areas the marketing is able to work together and combine, and in other areas, not so. I'll start with Commerce, I'll go to Sportsbook and then I'll end on the Collectibles. From a Commerce standpoint, it is a fair amount of performance marketing because that's how the business started. And so it's the analytics, it's the SEO. It is the paid search. It is the cross- sell and the upsell. If you bought your jersey from Fanatics, you kind of signed up, now you're a user and you'll get an email. The next time the Giants do something, the Giants make the playoffs, they win the conference, they go to the Super Bowl, you'll get hit up with some really cool swag that you can buy. And that's the area of Commerce. Sportsbook, betting, gaming, it's a new business. So right now they're in user acquisition. It's a new business that will be an app- based business. They will have some retail locations, but it's app- based, and so you think about all the digital apps that you can use. What's interesting is it is Sportsbook, so there's some things you can do in Sportsbook and some things you can't, because of the nature of the business. And then you've got our business that I worked on, which is Fanatics Collectibles, which is really kind of a mix. So you've got the business that was started in 2021, and then you've got Topps, this historic heritage brand that's been around. And so with that, you have the best of both worlds. So you can do some really cool product marketing because the assets and the products are mostly physical. They're a card that you can go to a hobby shop and buy, and those get repeated on a regular basis, so you can actually talk about, " Hey, we've got this product coming out. We've got an amazing launch next week, which is Bowman Chrome Baseball, and we can talk about what's going on with that product. But you can also, like Ajay was saying, you can also talk about some of the events, the trade shows that we have, where people go and collect, where we can show up from a presence standpoint. We can leverage athletes and partnerships to develop content around the hobby and collectors. And so we've got our own thing going on with respect to the Collectibles. I'd say where the connective tissue across the businesses is really two areas. One, the power of the Fanatics brand because when you hear Fanatics, you think about the fan and the opportunity to elevate the fan experience. And the second is the underlying base of that, which is the athlete. And so the relationships that we have with a number of different athletes can span across at least two of those Commerce and Collectibles. And we leverage the athletes, really, to allow us to have reach, relevance and authenticity.

Ajay Gupta: Can you talk to us a little bit more about these athlete partnerships and are they helpful with attracting new customers?

Ken Turner: They are. It's a great question, Ajay. They are, especially in an area where we have traditionally relied on the core consumer from a collecting standpoint, you have to know what you're doing to get into collecting. You have to know what you're looking for. And for some folks it's just not relevant. Where it becomes relevant is if they see an athlete. For us, it could be someone like an Anthony Volpe of the Yankees, a superstar rookie, where someone says, " Hey, I bought his jersey. I didn't realize there was a trading card, a rookie card." And so you build content around that individual and it allows you to really reach an audience that you haven't before. And so for us, we know that there are fans of athletes. Our role is to convert a fan into a collector, by providing awareness through content that you can actually enhance your experience through something other than just a jersey. You can have a piece of history and a memory with a trading card as well.

Ajay Gupta: When I was a teenager, I moved to US when I was around 12, and around that time professional wrestling came to India and all the craze was around these trading cards that came to India with wrestling. This summer, I was in India with my family, and my 10- year- old brought back my deck of wrestling cards, so he's been playing with them. So it's pretty cool to see the wrestlers from'80s and'90s on there.

Ken Turner: It's pretty cool. Who was your favorite wrestler?

Ajay Gupta: Bret Hart.

Ken Turner: All right. The Hart connection. Bret Hart, Jim Neidhart, I remember that. They had the pink as well. They had a nice little uniform.

Ajay Gupta: They did. Yeah. You're a wrestling fan, too.

Ken Turner: I'm a sports fan, man.

Ajay Gupta: Nice. Awesome. So for you, what's your favorite kind of collectible that you own or that you remember?

Ken Turner: I'll go with a jersey, because I talked about the Strawberry card. My first jersey was a Jim Brown jersey, which is appropriate, Jim Brown passing earlier this year. And it was a three- quarter length sleeve Brown's jersey, the white version of it, 32, it was amazing. It was special to me because it was my first Jersey. Second, I think the Browns may have worn that jersey for two years. Jim Brown only played eight years, but they wore those jerseys I think for two years. It's a really hard jersey to come by now, but it was my first jersey that I had and the first jersey that I bought with my own money. And so it became a special one for me.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's awesome. I'm trying to think of my favorite piece, my favorite piece of collectibles. I have these mini helmets, so they're Giants helmets, and there's three of them, of all the Super Bowl MVPs from the Giants' Super Bowls. So it's Phil Simms, one is OJ Anderson, and then one is Eli with the two on it. I have it displayed in a case, it's in my closet with some lights illuminating on it, but I've got a lot of jerseys. It's that nostalgia. I love collecting things and those live events, I can't wait for those. That's going to be awesome. So Ken, one more work- related question then. There's our infamous question that we ask every guest that our listeners, if we ever miss it, they'll hunt us down. But so talk to us, you work with a lot of professional leagues, you work with MLB, the other companies are not doing that, you're actually entrenched with it. What are the advantages of that?

Ken Turner: Yeah, I'll tell you, it's a bit newer for me, coming from Red Bull and having such great partnerships with some of the leagues, I think there's two areas that are really cool. One I talked a little bit about, it's the reach and it's the relevance. When you work with an MLB, you know that they have a good understanding of who their fan base is. They have a good understanding of how to work with teams. And so from that we get a chance to leverage and borrow the equity of MLB from a trading card perspective. And you mentioned this, Vincent, we had a live activation at the MLB All- Star game, and so we brought out a Topps activation. We had some other Fanatics things there as well, but just lines around the corner to buy these Topps trading cards that we had there. And then we have an opportunity with one of the athletes and the J- Rod and the Julio Rodriguez to do some things that are special, because the All- Star game is in Seattle. The other thing that it allows us to do is it allows us to create some engagements with fans and collectors. So it's part of one of our products that we had, fans had an opportunity to win VIP treatment to the MLB Home Run Derby. It was my first Home Run Derby, and I don't know if you all watched it, but J- Rod, he didn't win, but he won the heart. That stadium was electric when that dude hit 40- plus home runs in the Home Run Derby in the first round. It was pretty cool. So it gives us opportunities to kind of do things like that. I'd say the other area is being able to partner with the league to understand what it is they're looking to do in the future helps us as we start to build our marketing plans that are focused on driving more collectors into the hobby. Again, if we already know that they are fans of a league or fans of a team and we know a bit more about who these fans are, it gives us an opportunity to tell the right stories at the right time to convert those fans into collectors. Some of those may be on the playground, meaning specifically at the stadium, but there's also opportunities to reach these fans when they're in an MLB store. And so we have an opportunity to do that as well. One last plug, if you have been, Vincent, to the MLB store, if you haven't, you have been there. So there is a really cool Topps activation and the MLB flagship store in New York where you can actually take a selfie, a digital selfie with some of the athletes that we have. So it's in the top section and you just pick a player and then it produces a selfie for you. And so it's those things like that that having partnerships with the leagues allows us to do.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That is awesome. Every time, it's so funny, every time you say Topps, it takes me back to the old gum and opening up a pack and just being so happy about that. This little things like that. It's all this nostalgia that brings up different things, trading cards in general. Ajay was talking about his time when he was in India where having that... So it's amazing. I could talk about this stuff for hours. Let's get to a question that we ask every one of our guests, one of our signature questions. You're a chief marketing officer at a huge brand there, LinkedIn, you must get emails or solicitations all the time, Ken. What is a message that you just hate and never respond to? And also what's one that you may get your attention that may resonate with you?

Ken Turner: Yeah, I actually do try to read most of the LinkedIn messages. The ones that I usually don't respond to are the ones that are kind of, you can tell they just copy and paste it. There wasn't a lot of thought. So there's like, " Hello," and then some of them even say, " insert name," and then comes the pitch. So it's like, oh, okay, I'm not actually going to respond to that one. So those I get probably more so than others. It's just ones I don't respond to. The ones that I usually respond to, and this is going to sound weird, if someone has a name, a first name or a last name that is unique I've never seen before, it actually, it actually grabs my attention. It's like, wow, I've never seen that name before. So sorry for those folks who may be named John or Michael, or-

Ajay Gupta: Vincent's a fairly unique name. Vincent, that's a good one.

Vincent Pietrafesa: Pietrafesa, there's no one out there like that, Ken.

Ken Turner: Yeah, right. So it's like, wow, okay, let's hear this a little bit. So that's a filter that I use. The other ones are just looking for advice, right? I'm a big pay- it- forward fan in terms of doing things. I'll tell you a quick 15- second story. My first interview that I had with a marketing company was horrible. It was the worst interview I've ever had. The person who interviewed me stopped me during the interview and said, " This is going really, really bad." But what they did is they said, " We're going to do this. We're going to do a mock interview and I'm not going to count this because you're so bad at this. I can't tell if you can actually do the job. My only request is that you pay this forward. If anytime someone's looking for help, just to help their career, whatever it is, please just listen to them. And that was it. And he ended up hiring me, which was great. And now here I am.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's awesome. That's a great story. And also 160 guests, very unique in the sense that you said, I respond to people with unique names. That's the first time we've heard that one. And yeah, maybe Vincent, not so much, you're right, Ajay, but Pietrafesa, maybe that got his attention. You're here, aren't you? So it must've been... So Ken, our final question, when we get to know you personally, and we might've chatted about this, but you said Wisconsin- born, but now you're in LA. Who are your teams? Do you have to stay agnostic? Right? Talk to me about me, your teams that you root for and some of these cool athletes you're meeting. I would love to understand that your hobbies, what you're into.

Ken Turner: So I'll start with hobbies. Not as much as I used to, but I love to get on the mountain and snowboard. I did not know how to snowboard when I joined Red Bull. The folks at Red Bull made sure before I left I knew how to snowboard. So it's pretty cool to do that. In terms of teams, I'm a big Steelers fan. I'm a Steelers fan. Growing up in Wisconsin, my dad was a huge Packers fan, but they were horrible. And so I said, all right, I don't want to be that angry, ever. So I'm going to root for a team that has the closest colors, ended up being the Steelers, and now I'm probably as angry as he is, although this might be the year. I feel good about this year. From a basketball standpoint, interestingly, I root for the team that has the Marquette players. It was the heat when it was the way, now it's the heat because it's Jimmy Butler. I still like the Bucks, but being a graduate of Marquette undergrad, I root for those teams as well. I guess the other one is from a baseball standpoint, that's where I'm a bit more agnostic and I just enjoy the athletes and watching them do their things.

Vincent Pietrafesa: That's awesome, yeah. We actually had on someone from the Milwaukee Bucks on the podcast as well. It's interesting to learn about those smaller franchises that become bigger. That's awesome. Ken, this has been exciting having you on. This has been, again, because I'm so passionate about this, Fanatics and Fanatics Collectibles and collectibles in general, this has been amazing. Thank you for spending some time with us here today. Ladies and gentlemen, that's Ken Turner, the Chief Marketing Officer of Fanatics Collectibles. Check them out. Go and see if you're a sports fan. If you have children who are sports fans, go check them out. That's Ken Turner, that's Ajay Gupta. I'm Vincent Pietrafesa. This has been another episode of The Marketing Stir. Thank you so much for listening and we'll talk soon.

Vin Lapsley: Thanks for listening to the Marketing Stir podcast by Stirista. Please like, rate, and subscribe. If you're interested in being a guest on the podcast, please email us at the marketingstir@ stirista. com and thanks for listening.